By Mulengera Reporters
On Saturday 6th December 2014, an unusually fast-talking President Museveni appeared on Capital Gang political talk show where he freely exchanged views with listeners and panelists for more than 2 hours.
Museveni, who freely accepted attacks and provocations from then diehard opposition panelists namely Semujju Nganda, Beti Kamya and Abdul Katuntu, gave his views on many things.
One of these was whether he has any exit plan to ever leave power. This was put to him by then Kyaddondo East MP Semujju Nganda who begged him: “give us a Christmas gift as our good daddy and tell us about your retirement because even monarchs retire-the one of Qatar left for his son at 62 years.”
Speaking within spitting distance from where Semujju fired his questions from, Museveni said he would remain in the chair for as long as Ugandans want him. “Retirement? I won’t do it because Ugandans aren’t obsessed with my retirement. That is why they are always singing Tajja genga! Tajja genda [he won’t leave power]. That is in Luganda and their expression is very clear and can’t be mistaken. I will leave when Ugandans tell me to because I’m not like Semujju. I have where to go unlike Semujju. I will go when they say they don’t want me.”
Reacting to Beti Kamya’s earlier point that even when he has registered many undisputable achievements for Uganda, he risks destroying his own legacy by overstaying in power just like Egypt’s Mubarak, Libya’s Gaddafy and Syria’s Assad, Museveni said these countries’ circumstances are incomparable to Uganda.
Museveni said Libya used not to have elections and in Egypt, Mubarak fell partly because of external interference and conspiracy by foreign powers. ”That is why the Mubarak people are back in power. I told Morsi here and even in Addis that he wasn’t going to manage. I told him you will fail because your line is faulty. I asked him the dangers of me creating something called Christian brotherhood simply because Christians are the majority in Uganda,” said Museveni.
And to his credit, Museveni remained composed despite Semujju’s almost disrespectful provocations. Kamya’s point had been on sustainability of achievements which become threatened because of political instability resulting from leaders’ long stay in power but Museveni, almost sarcastically laughing at her, said: “You rest assured Uganda won’t collapse like those others [Libya, Syria, Egypt] you are talking about. Those who are talking about that they don’t know the people they are dealing with. The people managing our system here are invisible. They are never on capital gang. You can’t know them. They never come out.” He went on: “We have powerful cadreship and don’t expect that even in 50 years from now. You can be sure Uganda won’t collapse.”
WARNS ON JANET
In his three final questions, Semujju begged Museveni to “please stop personalizing politics in this country because your wife is a minister and your son is in the military-how do you supervise these people?”
Speaking lightly, almost laughing off Semujju, Museveni said: “I fought Janet not to go to politics and everybody in this country knows this because I didn’t want to expose her to those complex things. But then everybody from her area-elders came here [State House Entebbe]. People proved me wrong. She got the highest number of votes [Semujju interjected with but people didn’t force you to make her minister]. This Janet issue…okay now let Semujju enter my net and I deal with him if he jokes with my wife [laughter].”
Staying on this family question, Museveni went on: “Why can’t I put her in cabinet? If her people want her; people will see me as not being good. How do you alienate somebody who has been voted MP with the highest majority in the country? That wouldn’t be politics. Which politics would that be- alienating an MP who has been popularly elected with that margin? Why do you suppress her? In fact she is the one who suggested to be sent to Karamoja and she has done very well. Men feared to go there. She has done very well for the people there unless our good son Semujju here has a problem with that.”
This is the same point Museveni had eloquently made months earlier about his wife on BBC during his most recent visit to London. He had been hosted by the BBC to discuss the broader Amama Mbabazi question for the global audience. He had just fired the ex-PM. Semujju’s 3rd and last point was warning Museveni against commercializing politics. “I agree with him because Semujju has got it right on this one. I have been telling our leaders to stop it. NRM people shouldn’t use money in politics. It’s dangerous and that is why our MPs are in problems. Money should only be used to buy fuel for the car from one place to another.”
SPEAKING ON MBABAZI
Then somewhere during the show as he discussed the issue of then beleaguered EALA Speaker Margaret Zziwa, Museveni said what was happening at the Arusha-based assembly was merely a symptom of raw democracy that is experienced in Uganda sometimes.
Then Semujju Nganda interjected arguing that “even Mbabazi your Secretary General is a victim and is being hounded because of the raw democracy in your NRM.” Museveni then spoke about the Mbabazi issue. “Hon Semujju I don’t know what love you have for Mbabazi [all of a sudden]. I have known Mbabazi for as long as Semujju has been on earth and please better leave those issues of Mbabazi to us who know each other,” Museveni stated.
There was growing speculation in the country, as of that time, that Amama Mbabazi, the founding NRM Secretary General, was plotting to upstage and run against Museveni in 2016. This came to pass when, in 2015, JPAM released a recorded video declaring his bid for Presidency.
VAGUE ON ZZIWA: On the Zziwa issue, which was put by Oscar Semweya Musoke, the moderator, as one of the last questions, Museveni didn’t appear to have any quick fixes.
Speaking rather at length, Museveni referred to a newspaper story which had been published on October 16 that same year.
Titled “Tiperu Spills Zziwa’s Sex Secrets on Streets of Brussels: UGANDAN MPS ‘SMUGGLE’
SEX INTO EU PARLIAMENT,” the tabloid story had detailed the embarrassing attacks Zziwa endured during that EALA benchmarking trip to Brussels-based EU parliament.
Quoting a Tanzanian leader who had earlier on come to secretly brief him about the problems in EALA, Museveni said: “It’s a big problem but we would be better off if the people we sent there were a bit more mature. We sent childish people who are infantile and petty to EALA. I hear it’s the Ugandans leading the fight against Zziwa. That is what I hear and there was the other fight on the Brussels bus.”
Semujju challenged him on the issue of EALA MPs being childish saying: “But you were also young something like 40 when you became President.” Museveni replied: “Yes I was 40 years but I wasn’t infantile. I was young biologically but was mature in content. It’s different with those fellows in EALA. I have called them for meetings and called them on telephone. I hear it’s about the volley ball and quarrels on the bus. I hear those are the disagreements. We should raise the bar of people who go to Arusha. It shouldn’t be about just running around and getting elected anymore. That is a serious place for serious people because it’s like foreign affairs. We can’t continue like that.”
Abdul Katuntu chipped in: “but we told you as FDC if you remember. We were cautious on that EALA issue but you went in with your numbers.” On Katuntu’s prompting, Museveni also spoke about the more than two years Uganda had gone without a Chief Justice and Deputy Chief Justice which he said has greatly hurt administration of justice in Uganda.
Museveni agreed saying the country had waited for too long but argued he isn’t solely to blame. “I don’t work alone on these things despite Beti here saying the president has too much power. There is the Judicial Service Commission. It’s them with power for me I just sign. I’m not the one. Let me tell you people with the power and money-although we sometimes intervene when it becomes too much. You have the Permanent Secretary, the CAO, the Town Clerk and the Gombolola Chief for the rural Sub Counties. It’s them and not the president,” said Museveni before repeatedly defending Allen Kagina, Jennifer Musisi and Gen Kayihura for respectively transforming URA, KCCA and police.
Agreeing with Semujju that even when he had good ideas, Uganda loses out because he has become so weak at implementation, Museveni said: “Musisi is our cadre and we picked her from Makerere with Allen Kagina to come and help us. The problem was those civil servants who we had to work with yet they didn’t like the NRM ideology.”
When Semujju rejected his suggestion that the army would improve NAADS, focusing him on poor performance by UPDF companies like NEC, Museveni said: “That is not true. That is how we took over, redeemed and changed URA, the police and now KCCA. The army will not fail.”
Rejecting Semujju’s charge that he was praising police because it has excelled at brutalizing opposition supporters, Museveni described the then Gen Kayihura-led police as “work in progress.”
Turning to Musisi whom he praised for transforming roads in Kampala, giving Kafumbe Mukasa as an example, Museveni said: “she has helped us to fight the old order in Kampala which the opposition and the likes of Lukwago represent [Semujju interjected ‘Lukwago is still young-you are the one who is the old order’].”
Museveni shot back saying: “He may be young but archaic in thinking” and this joke cracked gangsters up into laughter. Oscar Semweya Musoke disputed Museveni’s praise of Musisi loudly wondering “for whom is Musisi then developing the city when she is busy chasing away people and isn’t working with other elected leaders including those of NRM?”
Museveni said: “But Semujju was telling us about Addis Ababa and Kigali. He forgets they are clean and admirable as he says because of strong enforcement and it’s the same struggle Musisi is involved in.”
Reacting to Semujju’s charge dismissing him as too weak to crack the whip on his corrupt cronies in government, Museveni said: “Semujju hasn’t made any contribution on the stolen money he talks about like in Katosi. He just gets his salary and that is all.”
Ofwono Opondo, who along Chris Baryomunsi and Lydia Wanyoto did well defending and praising Museveni as a well decorated General, chipped in informing Museveni “this Semujju is also an investor because he co-owns one of the newspapers [Observer].”
Opondo also reminded Katuntu of the need to read some of the Museveni writings saying they are always informative and full of wisdom. “I’m an ardent reader of history but will only be reading President Museveni’s writings after he leaves power and begins to write his memoirs.”
Katuntu also referred to the Mbabazi saga strongly cautioning Museveni to avoid manipulating the issue because “it could bring you down and tear apart the whole country.” He likened what then was happening in NRM to what Obote dealt with in the 1960s when factions emerged around the Kakonge and Ibingira factions.
He said just like that time (December 2014), one of the NRM factions was being fascinated by the UPC ideals and ideology by relying on the gun, just like the Obote faction became fascinated by politics rather than the UPC ideology. Museveni had told gangsters in a long preamble that the then upcoming NRM conference at Namboole would reflect on refocusing members on the NRM ideology on which it was founded in the 1960s.
Katuntu and Semujju insisted the conference would be dominated by the politics mainly on how to annihilate Mbabazi, purge and eliminate his influence within NRM. Directly disagreeing with Beti Kamya, whom he said he promised to interact with more on some of the views she expressed, Museveni denied being mandated with a lot of powers.
“In fact I’m just a lobbyist-actually the principal lobbyist for Uganda. If I had powers like you are saying why would I be begging those MPs all the time to see my point? If I had power I would be moving much faster. I think I will get time to discuss those points more with my daughter Beti here,” he said.
There was a belligerent exchange with Semujju at the start when Museveni said problems in NRM sometimes result from leaders deviating from party ideology in pursuit of personal ambitions. Museveni said even in the 1970s some senior leaders in the NRM struggle made ideological mistakes including working with Idi Amin “but I won’t give their names today.”
Semujju then disputed this saying Museveni wasn’t fascinated by ideological clarity in NRM anymore. “If that is the case why have you sidelined ideologically committed leaders like Amanya Mushega and you instead have my friends Anite and Frank Tumwebaze top on your list of allies you work with these days? I don’t think Anite is number one on that list because of her ideological ability. It’s purely politics and that is why we are in problems. You are fascinated with staying in power and that is why every delegate at Namboole will get Shs2m yet Ministry of Health can’t buy enough ambulances,” Semujju Nganda said before Opondo weighed in.
Ofwono Opondo said: “If the problem is the president as you say how come those leaders haven’t achieved much outside NRM? The Mushegas, Besigye and others left NRM and went in other parties but how come they haven’t achieved much there?”
Museveni also belittled Wakiso LC5 Chairman Matia Lwanga Bwanika whom he said is among opposition leaders who are messing up huge sums of money the central government releases every year to their districts. “Semujju is from Wakiso where the chairman is opposition and by the way I don’t know his name. I think he is called Nsubuga. We send a lot of money in Wakiso which they are democratically misusing because they are elected by our people to those offices. That is why we have come in with the army starting with NAADS to deal with those people,” said Museveni who remained reluctant to correctly identify the Wakiso LC5 chairman even after Beti Kamya reminded him his real names-Matia Lwanga Bwanika. (For comments on this story, get back to us on 0705579994 [WhatsApp line], 0779411734 & 041 4674611 or email us at mulengeranews@gmail.com).
